Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from beak.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Fri, 26 Oct 1990 01:49:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4b9ws4O00VcJQ0iU41@andrew.cmu.edu> Precedence: junk Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Fri, 26 Oct 1990 01:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SPACE Digest V12 #489 SPACE Digest Volume 12 : Issue 489 Today's Topics: Re: Theories needed on life Re: NAVY WITHOLDING EVIDENCE!!! Re: NAVY WITHOLDING EVIDENCE!!! Re: Magellan Update - 10/15/90 Re: NAVY WITHOLDING EVIDENCE!!! Jonathan's Space Report, Oct 12 Re: Voyager/Triton Article Re: Theories needed on life Re: Theories needed on life Re: You Can't Expect a Space Station to be Cheap Administrivia: Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to space+@andrew.cmu.edu. Other mail, esp. [un]subscription notices, should be sent to space-request+@andrew.cmu.edu, or, if urgent, to tm2b+@andrew.cmu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Oct 90 04:12:11 GMT From: wuarchive!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!cunews!cognos!dgbt!rick.doc.ca!calvin.doc.ca!andrew@decwrl.dec.com (Andrew Patrick) Subject: Re: Theories needed on life In article <1990Oct22.030456.16890@rick.doc.ca> I wrote: >Sounds like a dinasour. Hum... I wonder if there is a new theory here ^^^^^^^^ >somewhere. Is the earth shrinking in size? Perhaps the earth was >much larger and when it shrunk the dinosaurs perished or simply ^^^^^^^^^ >slipped from the gravitational pull. My son has always wondered why >they were so big! My son has also wondered why Dad can sometimes spell correctly and sometimes ... -- Andrew Patrick, Ph.D. Department of Communications, Ottawa, CANADA andrew@dgbt.doc.CA andrew@doccrc.BITNET HDTV: higher resolution, improved colour, wider screen, "sit-com" reruns. What's wrong with this picture? ------------------------------ Date: 24 Oct 90 03:49:01 GMT From: prism!ccoprmd@gatech.edu (Matthew DeLuca) Subject: Re: NAVY WITHOLDING EVIDENCE!!! Hey, this stuff belongs on either sci.skeptic or rec.humor... And do you have a name? -- Matthew DeLuca Georgia Institute of Technology Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, Office of Information Technology for they are subtle, and quick to anger. Internet: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.edu ------------------------------ Date: 24 Oct 90 08:42:03 GMT From: mintaka!olivea!samsung!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!jimcat@bloom-beacon.mit.edu (Jim Kasprzak) Subject: Re: NAVY WITHOLDING EVIDENCE!!! In article <1050400040@cdp> nec@cdp.UUCP writes: > > > "UFO CENTRAL" > The Forbidden City > Area# 51 I love this stuff... after so many dry, painstakingly factual postings about what's really going on in space, it's nice to have a touch of badly written conspiracy/fantasy/science fiction thrown in for comic relief. Just as long as they don't come along too often. (-: -- Jim Kasprzak kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu (internet) RPI, Troy, NY userfe0u@rpitsmts.bitnet "A spirit with a vision is a dream with a mission." -Rush ------------------------------ Date: 17 Oct 90 14:43:20 GMT From: hpfcso!hpldola!hp-lsd!paulc@hplabs.hpl.hp.com (Paul Carroll) Subject: Re: Magellan Update - 10/15/90 > Magellan Mission Status > October 15, 1990 > > The angle between the Sun, Earth and Magellan is down to 4.6 degrees. > The predicted limit of the S-Band communications through the High Gain Antenna > is 3.4 degrees, which is expected to be reached on October 20. What happens after October 20th? Is there a signal loss for some period of time (like a few weeks or a few months)? If so, then how will Magellan be safed in case there is some problem with star calibrations? Will Magellan stop imaging during this time? Thanks in advance. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Paul Carroll "I don't believe there is a single + + HP Logic Systems Division man, woman, or child alive in + + paulc%hp-lsd@hplabs.hp.com America today that doesn't enjoy a + + lovely beverage!" - David Letterman + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ Date: 24 Oct 90 18:03:46 GMT From: usc!srhqla!demott!kdq@ucsd.edu (Kevin D. Quitt) Subject: Re: NAVY WITHOLDING EVIDENCE!!! In article <1050400040@cdp> nec@cdp.UUCP writes: > > > "UFO CENTRAL" > The Forbidden City > Area# 51 > >Produced by: Audrey Lauin >Reported by: Bill McGowen both of "Current Affair(10/11/90)8:00p.m. > ... > >Soon thereafter Mr.Lazar became a modern man without a country! >His birth certificate, records of government jobs, coworkers, >everything vanished.....................As if I was never born!!! Tell, you what. You get me a copy of his fingerprints, and I'll give you a copy of his birth certificate, drivers license and any other identifying paperwork you choose to name. -- _ Kevin D. Quitt demott!kdq kdq@demott.com DeMott Electronics Co. 14707 Keswick St. Van Nuys, CA 91405-1266 VOICE (818) 988-4975 FAX (818) 997-1190 MODEM (818) 997-4496 PEP last 96.37% of all statistics are made up. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Oct 90 14:57:32 GMT From: frooz!cfa250!mcdowell@husc6.harvard.edu (Jonathan McDowell) Subject: Jonathan's Space Report, Oct 12 Got our news feed back at last, here goes with backlog... Jonathan's Space Report Oct 12 1990 (no.55) ---------------------------------------------------- Discovery landed on Oct 10 on Runway 22 at Edwards, successfully completing mission STS-41, launched on Oct 6. The ESA Ulysses probe is in solar orbit on its way to Jupiter. The PAM-S final stage, and the second stage of the IUS, as well as associated adapters, also are in solar orbit. STS-38/Atlantis is due for launch around Nov 7, and even Av Leak has not revealed the nature of its DoD payload - yet. Gennadiy Manakov and Gennadiy Strekalov continue in orbit aboard the Mir/Kvant/Kvant-2/Kristall/Soyuz TM-10/Progress M-5 complex. Progress M-5 carries a VBS (Vosvrashchaemaya Ballisticheskaya Kapsula) ballistic recovery capsule which will carry the results of materials processing experiments carried out in the Kristall module back to a landing in Kazakhstan. Progress M-5 used its engine to raise the Mir complex orbit on Oct 1 from 370x406 km to 373x420 km. The Salyut-7/Kosmos-1686 complex continues to decay slowly; its orbit is now 344x346 km high. A Soviet electronic intelligence satellite was destroyed on Oct 4 when the first stage of its Zenit launch vehicle exploded seconds after launch from Kosmodrom Baykonur. This is the first failure of a Zenit to reach orbit, although the upper stage of Kosmos-1714 failed to restart. The satellite would have been Kosmos-2102 had it reached orbit. Kosmos-2101 was launched on Oct 1 into an inital 170x296 km orbit by Soyuz from Baykonur. It is a photographic imaging recon satellite operated by the GRU (Soviet military intelligence). Kosmos-2101 will remain in orbit until about Nov 14; unlike the high-resolution Kosmos-2089, which reentered the same day, it has maneuvered into a relatively high perigee 210x290 km orbit, suggesting that it is a mapping flight. The only other Soviet imaging satellite now in orbit is Kosmos-2072, an advanced digital imaging satellite which was in a 237x277 km orbit on Oct 2. ___________________________________ |Current STS status: | |Orbiters | | | |OV-102 Columbia VAB Bay 1 | |OV-103 Discovery Edwards | |OV-104 Atlantis VAB Bay 3 | | | |ML/ET/SRB stacks | | | |ML3/STS-35/ET/OV102 VAB Bay 1 | |ML1/STS-38/ET/OV104 VAB Bay 3 | |ML2 VAB? | ----------------------------------- (c) 1990 Jonathan McDowell ------------------------------ Date: 22 Oct 90 02:38:42 GMT From: usc!samsung!dali.cs.montana.edu!rpi!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen@ucsd.edu (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) Subject: Re: Voyager/Triton Article In article <1990Oct19.222229.27329@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> baalke@mars.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) writes: | "Five-mile-tall black plumes that look like volcanic geysers | erupting on Neptune's moon Triton really may be swirling | funnels of dust, gas and nitrogen ice, some Voyager 2 | spacecraft scientists now believe." I attended a talk on Triton this spring, and this came up. One of the points was that there are "fallout" patterns in what is presumably the "downwind" direction from the plumes. I find it hard to believe without further evidence that dust devils would form in eactly the same place until they produced this pattern. The patterns are also noticed only on the ice covered portions (I use the term ice loosely), another indication, since the geyser mechanism requires a compound which can be a liquid or gas at the same temperature, depending on the pressure. On earth water does the job, while at the estimated temperatures on Triton (insert compound I forget here) does the trick and is known to be present. Also note that these are current activities, since the fallout is on top of the "snow," and winter only lasts (again from memory) 250 years on Triton. -- bill davidsen - davidsen@sixhub.uucp (uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen) sysop *IX BBS and Public Access UNIX moderator of comp.binaries.ibm.pc and 80386 mailing list "Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me ------------------------------ Date: 22 Oct 90 16:03:47 GMT From: att!watmath!maytag!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Brian or James) Subject: Re: Theories needed on life In article <1990Oct20.223947.2293@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >In article <1990Oct19.204109.1718@nntp-server.caltech.edu> bruce@seismo.gps.caltech.edu (Bruce Worden) writes: >>... Ignoring the high-gravity question, isn't it possible that an >>Earth-like planet could have beings remarkably similar to us? > >There is a long-standing debate about whether we are built the way we are >because of sheer chance or good engineering. There are lots of little >things that clearly could change without altering our fitness for survival >very much, e.g. the number of fingers on our hands. On the other hand, >anything that has followed a similar evolutionary track -- from finned >fish, to belly-dragging quadrupeds, to long-legged quadrupeds, to bipeds -- >will probably have a fairly similar overall body plan. Even somewhat >different evolutionary patterns (the existence of which is one subject >of the debate) seem likely to agree on basic features, i.e. putting the >sensors near the top for a better view, but not at the top where they >are vulnerable to falling objects and low ceilings. But the die-hards >will argue about even this. > >Oddly enough, some of the folks who are firmest about physical resemblance >being unlikely are also the loudest about how advanced civilizations *must* >be peaceful, egalitarian, etc. You'd almost think :-) it was their politics, >not their scientific judgement, talking. Oh, I'm sure that even if the physical form is greatly different from ours, for us to acknowledge another species as intelligent, there would be many similarities in behavior [Given our history, it might be that be no other species could pass our exhaustive tests for intelligence: Does it look like me/agree with me on these subjects?]. I imagine the different needs of another intelligent species might cause certain political models to have different utility to them: "Why, look. The Hive-mind social insects of Delta Pavonis two have libertarianism!" "Really?" "Yes. Check under abnormal pyschology." :) James Nicoll ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 90 21:05:50 GMT From: csusac!csuchico.edu!petunia!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!cunews!cognos!geovision!gd@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu (Gord Deinstadt) Subject: Re: Theories needed on life cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes: >In article <1990Oct18.213753.34575@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, dlinder@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes: >> Could someone theorize on what humanoid life would be like on a planet 3 or 4 >> times the size of the Earth. I'm looking for theories on body structure, >> societies, technology, psychology, etc. Thanks, I appreciate any speculation. >Short. Squat. Massive limbs. Leg bones of tremendous density and >thickness. Massive muscles to move those heavy and strong bones. Unless they swim in an ocean. Or swim in the atmosphere - such a large planet would have retained a lot of primordial atmosphere and hence have much higher atmospheric density at the surface. Actually, it surprises me that no creature on Earth ever evolved the ability to balloon around. The hard part is the chemistry. You will have to adjust the distance or size of the star in order to keep temperatures reasonable. There might be alternative chemistries to carbon/water, with different temp. range, but why complicate things needlessly? As for the society, it surely would be different if they live in an ocean or atmosphere. How do you stake out borders in three dimensions? How do you farm? You can herd, I suppose. Consider dolphin behaviour. When they want a safe place for the kids to play, a few of them get together and stake out the perimeters of a space, herding the kids back together if they spread out too much. But to develop a technological civilization, you need to work with solids, so you need to attach yourself to the sea floor or to a floating object. Maybe you live inside some naturally occuring hollow or honeycombed object like a coral reef, still 3 dimensional but with surfaces and spaces that can be controlled, owned, fought over. -- Gord Deinstadt gdeinstadt@geovision.UUCP ------------------------------ Date: 23 Oct 90 22:21:56 GMT From: hub.ucsb.edu!ucsbuxa!3001crad@ucsd.edu (Charles Frank Radley) Subject: Re: You Can't Expect a Space Station to be Cheap As a designer on Fred who is only superficially familiar with the LLNL ideas, let me throw out some of the major design drivers on Fred, and I would like to know how LLNL deals with them..... 1 - Atomic oxygen, very few materials can survive thirty years in the AO environment, Fred has a 30 year lifetime requirement. That means we have to GUARANTEE 30 years, in reality it might last much longer; what material is the inflatable habitat made of ? Exterior surfaces must all be metallic to shield against AO, does the LLNL design do this ? 2 - Radiation - need to guarantee to operate after a 30 year dose in LEO (crews rotated every 90 days) kinda restricts the electrical design; 3 - orbital debris - need to have a Safe Haven configuration of multiple interconnected nodes and modules with fast closing hatches in between, to seal off the punctured section, can the LLNL design do this ? 4 - Can LLNL assemble their Fred equivalent system using 22 shuttle flights? This means weight is a big issue. LLNL's amorphous silicon solar cells are certainly cheap to manufacture, but for watts per pound they are inferior, and heavy to launch. 5 - LLNL's Nickel-hydrogen batteries are nothing new, Fred uses the same type; 6 - What experience does LLNL have in the following areas of space applications:- airlocks, hyperbaric chambers, long life vacuum bearings, BAPTAS (Bearing and Power Transfer Assemblies) = slip rings to get power and data from the rotating panels to the station users, large space structures attitude control, long life propulsion systems, low pressure outgassing and offgassing; - The impression I have is that LNNL trades off safety and risk versus cost. As a safety engineer that is anathema to me. There is nothing clever about taking risks, any fool can do that. However, they better be prepared for the bad press they get when they have a Challenger style disaster. NASA clearly does not want anything like that to happen again, and safety costs money guys, sorry but that is just the facts of life. ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V12 #489 *******************